Facebook whistleblower Frances Haugen on the real Social Reckoning.

Frances Haugen, the Facebook whistleblower, joins Jess Maddox and Thomas Germain on The Interface to talk about The Social Reckoning, the new film that follows her story and acts as a sequel to The Social Network. It stars Mikey Madison as Haugen, alongside Jeremy Strong and Jeremy Allen White.

Haugen, who leaked internal documents known as the Facebook Files in 2021, explains why she believes Meta (formerly Facebook) needed outside scrutiny, and what she saw as a product manager that changed her mind about fixing it from the inside. She discusses what she says the documents and court filings reveal about teen safety on Instagram and Facebook, and the platform's impact on schools.

She also looks at what has changed since 2021, from the wave of US lawsuits over social media design and harm to children, to the EU's Digital Services Act and Australia's under-16 social media ban. Haugen explains what she thinks "practical, moderate oversight" could look like.

She also talks about the personal cost of blowing the whistle, and shares her advice for employees at AI labs who may face the same choice.

Jess and Thomas discuss why so many films about tech leaders are landing at once, what the shift in public attitudes means for Big Tech, and whether AI companies can learn from the social media era.

After our request for comment, Meta told us they had previously addressed the issues raised by Frances Haugen in this episode. They stated they have strict rules against content that encourages or glorifies self harm, that Teen Accounts have strict message settings and nudity protection by default, and they have evidence of decades-long work to develop and release teen safety protections. Meta have also previously acknowledged that they could have done more to prevent Facebook being used to incite offline violence in Myanmar, and they have since implemented corrective actions.

The Interface is your weekly guide to the tech rewiring your week and your world. Hosted by journalist Thomas Germain and “professor of the internet” Jessica Maddox, each episode unpacks, week by week, how technology is shaping all our futures. No jargon. Just two sharp voices debating the stories that matter - whether they shook a government, broke the internet, or quietly tipped the balance of power.

New episodes drop every Wednesday on BBC Sounds in the UK. Outside the UK, find us on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts, or watch the video version on YouTube (search “The Interface podcast”). To get in touch with the team: [email protected]

The Interface is a BBC Studios production. Producer: Becca Bryers Executive Editor: Philip Sellars